[quote=http://www.rcmf.co.uk/4um/index.php?top ... #msg285284]I've just come back from Hungary myself and had to watch this all over the news. It's so sad that the only thing an average person in Hungary will ever hear about model flying is this. (In case you watched the coverage of the TV2 radio station, consider yourself lucky if you don't speak Hungarian -- it was quite appalling and "sensationalist" in many ways; at least some of the other stations reported in a much more objective and non-disturbing way.) An update -- apparently the pilot of the plane had a nervous breakdown and stated that he won't ever fly model planes again. They also said that he used to make a living out of the hobby.
[quote=Cactus on May 14, 2006, 11:47:47 AM]Sophies found a report in hungarian with much more detail, still trying to find a online translator.
it seems it might have been interferance from CB's, Taxis or another near by flyer.
this was noticed on the Friday, but then this one just crashed.[/quote]
They said they had had some interference on Friday which destroyed one of the planes. On the other hand, the person who talked about CB and taxi radio (he's the president of the Hungarian model flying association) must be stuck in the 1970s because both of these operate in the 27MHz band in Hungary (unless taxi has already been upgraded to something else, but it's certainly not 35MHz).
András[/quote]
14.05.2006 - Slys í Ungverjalandi
Re: 14.05.2006 - Slys í Ungverjalandi
Icelandic Volcano Yeti
Re: 14.05.2006 - Slys í Ungverjalandi
Ekki hljómar það vel...
[quote]Update: they've arrested the pilot and accused him of gross negligence and manslaughter. They're already talking about up to 5 years. How disgusting.
They are already speculating and pretty much take radio interference as the major cause for granted -- if that is so, that could have far-reaching consequences as it would mean that both the organizers and the pilot failed to make sure there was sufficient separation between the plane and the crowd. (From the video, it may seem the plane didn't deviate very far from its course, which implies that the crowd was too close to the flight line). I wouldn't like to speculate at this stage, so this paragraph is just a copy of what they said in the news today.
I have a bad feeling about the entire thing because the investigation is currently with the police who don't know knack about R/C models, and the only "expert" they can officially ask says it could have been CB radio or taxi radio interference. Also, the police in Hungary are under heavy influence by the current government and tend to bend things in whichever way the (post-)communist party wants them to be. I wouldn't be surprised if this turned out to bias them against the poor German guy.
The plane was a Pitts replica, BTW. Does anyone know what model the R/C radio might have been and exactly how redundant the electronics on the plane was?
András[/quote]
[quote]Update: they've arrested the pilot and accused him of gross negligence and manslaughter. They're already talking about up to 5 years. How disgusting.
They are already speculating and pretty much take radio interference as the major cause for granted -- if that is so, that could have far-reaching consequences as it would mean that both the organizers and the pilot failed to make sure there was sufficient separation between the plane and the crowd. (From the video, it may seem the plane didn't deviate very far from its course, which implies that the crowd was too close to the flight line). I wouldn't like to speculate at this stage, so this paragraph is just a copy of what they said in the news today.
I have a bad feeling about the entire thing because the investigation is currently with the police who don't know knack about R/C models, and the only "expert" they can officially ask says it could have been CB radio or taxi radio interference. Also, the police in Hungary are under heavy influence by the current government and tend to bend things in whichever way the (post-)communist party wants them to be. I wouldn't be surprised if this turned out to bias them against the poor German guy.
The plane was a Pitts replica, BTW. Does anyone know what model the R/C radio might have been and exactly how redundant the electronics on the plane was?
András[/quote]
Icelandic Volcano Yeti
Re: 14.05.2006 - Slys í Ungverjalandi
[quote]According to one of the few usually reliable sources in Hungary (HírTV), he's been placed in a 72-hour "criminal detention", which I guess just gives them time to charge him officially without physically releasing him. I don't think he's actually been charged yet, though a large number of media reports suggest he has. A investigation has been initiated into "manslaughter caused by dangerous behaviour and gross negligence as a professional" (that's how I understand it, I'm no lawyer).
The media (or a large part of it) already know what caused the crash -- radio interference. How they can be sure I don't know, but even if radio interference is to blame, there must be other factors which contributed to the tragedy. Since no model aircraft is immune to radio interference, and the phenomenon is so common that there's barely a modeller around who hasn't experienced it, I'd say that that alone can only cause a fatal accident if other factors (dangerous flying, inappropriate separation of the crowd from the flightline, etc.) contribute. Whenever we plan a show or just simply go flying at the field, I reckon we always have to consider complete loss of radio control at any point during the flight.
András
Update: the 72-hour detention ends on Tuesday afternoon, and, according to police reports, the pilot will not be arrested. It looks like at least some of the Hungarian police have been blessed with a brain. The latest news item also says the pilot was 32 years of age.
We still don't know officially what equipment was used on the plane. The wreckage and the radio equipment has been confiscated of course. The Graupner mc16/20 shown on many news websites is certainly not the pilot's radio unit.
András[/quote]
The media (or a large part of it) already know what caused the crash -- radio interference. How they can be sure I don't know, but even if radio interference is to blame, there must be other factors which contributed to the tragedy. Since no model aircraft is immune to radio interference, and the phenomenon is so common that there's barely a modeller around who hasn't experienced it, I'd say that that alone can only cause a fatal accident if other factors (dangerous flying, inappropriate separation of the crowd from the flightline, etc.) contribute. Whenever we plan a show or just simply go flying at the field, I reckon we always have to consider complete loss of radio control at any point during the flight.
András
Update: the 72-hour detention ends on Tuesday afternoon, and, according to police reports, the pilot will not be arrested. It looks like at least some of the Hungarian police have been blessed with a brain. The latest news item also says the pilot was 32 years of age.
We still don't know officially what equipment was used on the plane. The wreckage and the radio equipment has been confiscated of course. The Graupner mc16/20 shown on many news websites is certainly not the pilot's radio unit.
András[/quote]
Icelandic Volcano Yeti
Re: 14.05.2006 - Slys í Ungverjalandi
Á RunRyder kemur fram að flugmaðurinn hafi verið Stefan Wurm. Hann er einn af allra bestu módelflugmönnum.
"Best Pilot" á La Ferte Alais 2001
http://www.flyingsites.co.uk/reviews/videos/avf.htm
Pitts 1:2,1
http://www.biplanes.de/rc_modelle_wey/b ... ipe_04.htm
"Best Pilot" á La Ferte Alais 2001
http://www.flyingsites.co.uk/reviews/videos/avf.htm
Pitts 1:2,1
http://www.biplanes.de/rc_modelle_wey/b ... ipe_04.htm
Re: 14.05.2006 - Slys í Ungverjalandi
Nýjasta nýtt utan úr heimi.
[quote]Here is a link to RCG page with a "rough translation" of the report on this incident from a german web site.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost ... stcount=38
It's a translation (not by me) of...
http://www.modellflug-im-daec.de/news/2 ... m#Ungarn-2
And here's the text...
Quote
--------------------------
The model flight club Szekszárd had organised past Saturday afternoon a flight show on the large former military airfield Öcsény. As a Stefan W. of the DAeC Luftsport, federation Bavaria association flew his second flight he had a sudden and total loss of control on his aerobatics model Pitts S12 with four-cycle combustion engine (span 2.50 m, approx. 20 kg weight).
The fail safe funtion switched on at approximately 20 m height ; driven off by the cross-wind the model flew uncontrolled from the airfield to several hundred meters away into the crowd and impacted there. It broke a panic off; a married couple was killed, four further humans was hurt.
The police drove off the unfortunate pilot in handcuffs. Video material was broadcasted over a Hungarian television channel proved that he had flown the fastidious aerobatics program far from the spectators. Only after the loss of the control did the model turn in the crowds direction.
Stefan W. was convinced that only a substantial interference resulted in the complete loss of control. This interference was proven free of doubts the following Monday and again on Tuesday morning by the public prosecutor's office. A Hungarian expert and the father of Stefan W, traveled with a scanner from Germany. - Stefan W.' s plane naturally uses 35MHz frequency. The European Radiocommunications Committee recommends all European Union states to reserve it exclusively for model aircrafts. Also Hungary is European Union member.
Overlapping of the frequency however was transmitted by a strong, regional Radio broadcaster in Szekszárd, in particular the channels 61, 62 and 63 were completely disturbed in the change. The plane of Stefan W. works on channel 62.
On Monday evening the public prosecutor's office apologized officially with Stefan W. for the unfair treatment and returned his passport. A bail, about which the police wanted to negotiate after provisional release on Sunday, was no more an issue. Which Radio broadcaster it concerns, which switches itself on so suddenly, has not been released by the Hungarian authorities.
Stefan W. is a very experienced model pilot, who won prizes with his demonstrations several times „Best OF show “. It was already his third time in Szekszárd . In order to prepare himself for the show, he had traveled one week in advance, and trained the days up to the Flight show.
He was conscious that the Hungarian legislation is not a guarantee to unimpaired 35 MHz frequency. Just to protect his valuable model, range tests with a light electrical model belong to his routine prior each flight day.
He had not noticed the smallest disturbance during the entire entire week up to Friday afternoon and Saturday where isolated small interferences occured, up to the misfortunate flight. - The flight line of the model flight club Szekszárd held the usual safety routine with the check of the frequencies and the delivery of the transmitters, however no scanner had been used. Gerhard Wöbbeking Member of the executive committee that DAeC sport specialized group Modellflug
-----------------------------------------------------------[/quote]
[quote]Here is a link to RCG page with a "rough translation" of the report on this incident from a german web site.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost ... stcount=38
It's a translation (not by me) of...
http://www.modellflug-im-daec.de/news/2 ... m#Ungarn-2
And here's the text...
Quote
--------------------------
The model flight club Szekszárd had organised past Saturday afternoon a flight show on the large former military airfield Öcsény. As a Stefan W. of the DAeC Luftsport, federation Bavaria association flew his second flight he had a sudden and total loss of control on his aerobatics model Pitts S12 with four-cycle combustion engine (span 2.50 m, approx. 20 kg weight).
The fail safe funtion switched on at approximately 20 m height ; driven off by the cross-wind the model flew uncontrolled from the airfield to several hundred meters away into the crowd and impacted there. It broke a panic off; a married couple was killed, four further humans was hurt.
The police drove off the unfortunate pilot in handcuffs. Video material was broadcasted over a Hungarian television channel proved that he had flown the fastidious aerobatics program far from the spectators. Only after the loss of the control did the model turn in the crowds direction.
Stefan W. was convinced that only a substantial interference resulted in the complete loss of control. This interference was proven free of doubts the following Monday and again on Tuesday morning by the public prosecutor's office. A Hungarian expert and the father of Stefan W, traveled with a scanner from Germany. - Stefan W.' s plane naturally uses 35MHz frequency. The European Radiocommunications Committee recommends all European Union states to reserve it exclusively for model aircrafts. Also Hungary is European Union member.
Overlapping of the frequency however was transmitted by a strong, regional Radio broadcaster in Szekszárd, in particular the channels 61, 62 and 63 were completely disturbed in the change. The plane of Stefan W. works on channel 62.
On Monday evening the public prosecutor's office apologized officially with Stefan W. for the unfair treatment and returned his passport. A bail, about which the police wanted to negotiate after provisional release on Sunday, was no more an issue. Which Radio broadcaster it concerns, which switches itself on so suddenly, has not been released by the Hungarian authorities.
Stefan W. is a very experienced model pilot, who won prizes with his demonstrations several times „Best OF show “. It was already his third time in Szekszárd . In order to prepare himself for the show, he had traveled one week in advance, and trained the days up to the Flight show.
He was conscious that the Hungarian legislation is not a guarantee to unimpaired 35 MHz frequency. Just to protect his valuable model, range tests with a light electrical model belong to his routine prior each flight day.
He had not noticed the smallest disturbance during the entire entire week up to Friday afternoon and Saturday where isolated small interferences occured, up to the misfortunate flight. - The flight line of the model flight club Szekszárd held the usual safety routine with the check of the frequencies and the delivery of the transmitters, however no scanner had been used. Gerhard Wöbbeking Member of the executive committee that DAeC sport specialized group Modellflug
-----------------------------------------------------------[/quote]
Icelandic Volcano Yeti
Re: 14.05.2006 - Slys í Ungverjalandi
Icelandic Volcano Yeti
-
Björn G Leifsson
- Póstar: 2914
- Skráður: 24. Apr. 2004 01:14:45
Re: 14.05.2006 - Slys í Ungverjalandi
Þetta hljómar sannfærandi. Ég vona að aumingja maðurinn nái sér. Það hlýtur að vera hræðilegt að lenda í svona.
Munum eitt... Murphy's lögmálið segir að eitthvað svipað geti komið fyrir hvern okkar sem er. Það þarf ekki 200cc mótor til að drepa mann... EF óheppilega vill til þá getur "venjulegur" mótor valdið lífshættulegum áverkum sbr. stúlkuna sem fórst í Englandi forðum.
Hvað getum við lært af þessu? Það er annar þráður í gangi stofnaður af Gauja til þess að ræða lærdóm af þessu.
Við skulum skoða allt þetta vel, ræða hvernig við bregðumst við og gera það sem við getum til þess að minnka slysahættu.
Við verðum að geta sagt að við höfum bestu mögulegu öryggiskröfur þegar við fljúgum, sérstaklega á mótum og mannfögnuðum.
...
Munum eitt... Murphy's lögmálið segir að eitthvað svipað geti komið fyrir hvern okkar sem er. Það þarf ekki 200cc mótor til að drepa mann... EF óheppilega vill til þá getur "venjulegur" mótor valdið lífshættulegum áverkum sbr. stúlkuna sem fórst í Englandi forðum.
Hvað getum við lært af þessu? Það er annar þráður í gangi stofnaður af Gauja til þess að ræða lærdóm af þessu.
Við skulum skoða allt þetta vel, ræða hvernig við bregðumst við og gera það sem við getum til þess að minnka slysahættu.
Við verðum að geta sagt að við höfum bestu mögulegu öryggiskröfur þegar við fljúgum, sérstaklega á mótum og mannfögnuðum.
...
"For every complex problem there is a solution that is simple, neat and wrong"
H.L. Mencken
H.L. Mencken
Re: 14.05.2006 - Slys í Ungverjalandi
Hér er þráðurinn hans Gauja sem Björn vísar í, http://frettavefur.net/Forum/viewtopic.php?id=493
Icelandic Volcano Yeti
Re: 14.05.2006 - Slys í Ungverjalandi
Þetta er athyglisverð lesning og gott málið er upplýst þannig að flugmaðurinn sé laus allra mála. Af myndunum að dæma virðist þetta hafa byrjað sem hin huggulegasta flugkoma með ágætum módelum innanum og samanvið. Verst að svo fór sem fór.